Moving from a successful individual contributor to a leader of people is a pivotal career moment. This shift often presents new challenges and requires a new set of skills. Many first-time leaders experience a sense of overwhelm when first stepping into the role.
“It’s a journey we all recognize,” says Bob Nedbal, executive coach at think2perform and principal facilitator of our Breakthrough Leadership program. “I’ve been successful through my own individual contributions, and now I’m asked to work with and lead other people and help contribute to the organization through that.”
On this episode of Making the Ideal Real, Bob joins us to unpack the key mindsets and strategies that lead to effective, empowering leadership.
Listen in as Bob shares tips for helping new leaders learn to lead with integrity and empower their teams effectively.
Shift From “Fixing” to “Fanning the Flame”
One of the most important shifts for new leaders is letting go of the “fixing” mentality. Bob explains that individual contributors often focus on solving problems directly, but effective leadership requires a different approach — one that emphasizes igniting the potential within each team member.
“What if it wasn’t about fixing?” Bob says. “What if it was about fanning the flame of the person’s potential? What if it was helping connect that person to their values and what’s most important to [them]?” Rather than seeing every challenge as something to “fix,” new leaders must recognize the value of nurturing individual strengths and abilities.
This mindset shift helps leaders foster growth and empower their teams to reach new heights. Instead of being the sole problem solver, leaders should guide their team members in recognizing their abilities and encouraging them to take ownership of their growth. Creating a place where team members feel heard and valued can change the way a team operates and foster a collaborative team environment.
Beware of Leadership Extremes
New leaders often fall into two extremes: overleading or underleading. Overleading, or micromanaging, happens when leaders feel the need to control every aspect of their team’s work, often stifling creativity and independence. Underleading, on the other hand, occurs when a leader delegates tasks to someone who isn’t ready.
Effective leadership is about finding the balance — knowing when to step in and when to step back, adapting based on each individual’s experience and readiness. “I need to lead Ryan in a unique way. I’m going to need to lead Lisa in a unique way,” Bob says. “Why is that? Because I put my attention on how Ryan is, what’s important to Ryan. That’s going to be different from Lisa and everybody else.”
When someone is new to a role or task, providing clear instructions and guidance is crucial. This is the directing phase, where the leader takes on a more hands-on role to support team members. As the individual grows more confident and competent, the leader shifts into a coaching role, offering support and encouragement while fostering independent decision-making. Finally, once the team member has demonstrated consistent performance, the leader moves into delegating, empowering the individual to take full ownership of their work.
By understanding when and how to adjust their approach, leaders can help their teams grow more effectively.
Lead With Values First
Values-based leadership is about more than just managing tasks — it is about leading people with authenticity and integrity. “Values-based leaders live in alignment more often … and they teach others to do the same,” Bob says. When leaders act with authenticity, they build trust and respect within their teams. This approach creates an environment where team members feel motivated and supported, ultimately leading to mutual growth and success.
Leaders must be willing to ask themselves tough questions about whether their actions are in alignment with their stated values. This honesty not only strengthens their personal integrity but also sets a powerful example for their teams.
Another key aspect of values-based leadership is connecting the team’s work to a larger purpose. Bob emphasizes that when people see how their roles contribute to something meaningful, they feel more motivated and engaged. He believes that leaders should help their teams see the impact of their work beyond just the day-to-day tasks, tying individual contributions to the broader mission of the organization.
“If we create that alignment of where we need to go as a business with where people want to go in their lives, and I invest in those people,” Bob says, “remarkable things are possible.”
People in This Episode
Bob Nedbal: LinkedIn
Resources
Transcript
Bob Nedbal:
When I’m leading from a place of values orientation and I’m teaching and developing others to live in alignment more often, we not only are aligned with our own values and purpose in life, but we’re aligned with the organization, whether it be for-profit or non-profit organization. If we create that alignment of where we need to go as a business with where people want to go in their lives, and I invest in those people, remarkable things are possible.
Ryan Goulart:
That’s Bob Nedbal, Senior Vice President of think2perform and co-active coach. We’re talking about how to access more of your potential through leadership. I’m Ryan Goulart and you are Making the Ideal Real.
I have with me today Bob Nedbal, executive coach here at think2perform and also one of the main facilitators of Breakthrough Leadership, our program that begins in January.
Bob, welcome to Making the Ideal Real.
Bob Nedbal:
Ryan, it’s great to be back here with you. I have always enjoyed collaborating with you and making a positive difference every day. So great to be here with you and our listeners.
Ryan Goulart:
Awesome. So we’re talking about leadership today, which is a broad topic, and I want to anchor on a part of that journey that happens when those that go from an individual contributor to a leader and spend some time in that seat for a minute. What are some things that you see in how leaders begin to make that migration from an individual contributor to a leader and then they’re either newly promoted or just been in that seat for maybe a couple of years? What are some observations that you’ve seen?
Bob Nedbal:
I really appreciate that question because every new leader, they go through this. It’s a journey we all recognize. I’ve been successful through my own individual contributions, and now I’m asked to work with and lead other people and help contribute to the organization through that. It’s a completely different skill set.
As we all know, leadership really is about influence. The work that I may have been doing in the organization, it’s about skills, et cetera. So I have to start thinking about how do I constructively, productively influence other people to bring their best to the organization? And it’s a completely different set of skills. So the first thing that happens, Ryan, as you asked, was first I may look like the deer with my eyes in the headlights. I don’t know what to do. And so I’m trying to figure out where do I go to develop skills, to learn some tools, to understand how I’m supposed to be as a leader.
So those are some of the things that I have heard many who go through Breakthrough Leadership express. “How do I do this? How do I do it well? I’m a little worried.” In the Breakthrough leadership program, they’ll have a set of tools that they will learn, so things they can pull off the shelf and they can put into practice. And second is that there’s a key mindset shift. In fact, I’ll give you this one example. One of the individuals that went through Breakthrough Leadership, they were having challenges with having difficult conversations with people. I have to give some feedback to somebody who’s showing up late consistently. Maybe their work quality is poor. Maybe they’re influencing, in a bad way, team morale. So now I’m in this position where I have to have, you can say, a difficult conversation, a crucial conversation. And when I walk into that without the right skills and experiences, I might be in this mindset of thinking, I have to fix it. I’ve got to fix this.
So what we would do, either in the program or in a coaching setting, we begin to shift that mindset. We begin to ask questions of the person. What if it wasn’t about fixing? What if it was about fanning the flame of the person’s potential? What if it was helping connect that person to their values and what’s most important to that person? And maybe what’s going on for them is something they can’t control. So it’s not necessarily about fixing. It’s about this new mindset. How do I help Bob recognize something’s going on? So how can I have that conversation. First, I need to recognize that my perspective is not about fixing. I need to recognize that it is about fanning Bob’s potential, the flame of his potential.
So now my conversation’s completely different. It doesn’t feel so charged up with fixing stuff. Now I’m more of in a collaborative relationship with Bob and we’re thinking about connecting what’s going on with his values, and then we help Bob realize, “Bob, you matter. You matter to the team. The team’s counting on you. Our clients benefit from the skills and abilities you bring.” And so now this whole dialogue of shifting Bob’s behavior becomes one that’s more constructive.
Ryan Goulart:
One of the things that really does come to mind with the two things that you just mentioned, there’s tools and there’s mindset. Oftentimes, and I’ll use myself as an example, when there’s something I don’t know, where do I go for that knowledge? It’s one of two places. It’s Google or YouTube. And so I am seeking knowledge for a situation that I’m not familiar with. I find myself knowing what I know here at think2perform and noticing about myself that I am in that 20% of adult learning where I’m just seeking knowledge. I haven’t really done anything yet with it. That’s always the hardest part about it is that 70% of our learning is through experience.
Bob Nedbal:
That’s right.
Ryan Goulart:
This is where the tool component comes in, and I want to stay there for a second. Talk to me a little bit about the balance between having a tool, having the support to use the tool and then realizing that with that tool, with the support, my mindset shifts.
Bob Nedbal:
I love it because the natural inclination is, “I don’t know, so I got to go find and do it all on my own.” The beauty of Breakthrough Leadership — there’s a few things that happen here. One, structured program tools that have time and time again been used, that they’re tested over decades of use. We know that they’re effective. So we have a toolkit that we know works when it’s implemented consistently. Two, we’ve got a group, a cohort of peers that are experiencing the same things you and I are experiencing. So now we get to learn from one another. What’s working for you? What’s not working for you? Is this as scary for you guys as it is for me? That’s one of the fundamental tenets of Breakthrough Leadership is it’s not about the teacher teaching. It’s not about the facilitator sharing knowledge. That, of course, is going to happen. We got to ground ourselves in whatever the tools are in a given session, but it’s about the dialogue.
So tools, dialogue, the peer group, but then there’s the practical application. So in between the sessions, the encouragement is go try this out, practice it with somebody you trust, try it out and see what happens. Because what we don’t want to do, we don’t need to practice kicking a perfect penalty kick in the last seconds of overtime in the World Cup, right? That’s not the time for us to be practicing. So that’s the beauty of the Breakthrough Leadership Program. You got peer dialogue, understanding that there are people in the boat with us experiencing the same things. Then we get to practically apply it. We get to bring that learning back, including the bumps. There’s the bumps and the scars and the bruises, but there’s also the wins, and that’s the beautiful thing. When somebody’s had the success and they share that with the group, it gives hope and optimism to everybody there.
Ryan Goulart:
It’s one of those things about leadership that I think is so difficult. We can all notice a situation. We can all understand how I might be able to have a difficult conversation with someone.
It’s another thing to do it. And I think what you just shared about how there’s this group coaching, supportive infrastructure to help people through something that is people-driven leadership. We’re not talking management. We’re not talking management of things. We are talking leadership of people. And I think there’s also power in the fact that, and I’m sure you have some stories here that can articulate this, but when someone comes to class or comes to a coaching with you and they didn’t do the work, but they noticed where they could have applied it, walk me through that.
Bob Nedbal:
It happens to all of us, as a good dear friend of mine says, you got a lot of great people in that bunker with you. Those moments when I see the opportunity where I could have but I didn’t. It does take time. We always use this phrase, “Leadership is a journey.” I do want to reinforce the point, Ryan, you made earlier. We do not manage people. That’s the old world. As constructive, productive values-based leaders, we manage things but we lead people. In that situation you described where I didn’t do it, one of the first things I’ll encourage is notice patterns. It isn’t about grabbing the tool and going and jumping in and just doing it, but notice your own patterns of behavior. Do you avoid because it feels uncomfortable? It’s pretty important to recognize what do I do? I come back to the group and say, “What do you guys do when you’re uncomfortable? This doesn’t feel right. I don’t want to sit down with Ryan and talk about this. I got to fix it.”
Well, fixing it’s a perspective. What’s another perspective? So, as I begin to recognize what my current mindset is, it is uncomfortable but I’m doing this with the best interest of the person who I’m leading, who I’m now responsible. By the way, leadership is a responsibility. It’s a privilege. So from this new perspective, I’m seeing it in a constructive way. It doesn’t mean every difficult situation works out beautifully, but my perspective, tying it back to leadership influence, my perspective as I walk into the room and I sit down with Ryan to have this difficult conversation, leadership is influence. I’m going to influence how that moment goes, and then I shift, to the point you made, I shift from identifying patterns of my behavior, taking the moment, “Oh, with this new mindset, I can change my behavior and I learn from that.”
Because everything we’re talking about here, at its most fundamental level, is about human behavior change. And we know that human behavior change is very difficult, but it is possible. And when we do this from the right mindset, values-based leadership, I’m trying to help Ryan see that he matters and we’re trying to become better together and I’m trying to help Ryan grow, some magical things can happen. They do happen.
A client of mine that I’ve been working with for a few years now, he has been promoted to the executive team of the organization. He’s learning how to function in the executive team and he’s taking on much broader responsibility for people leadership. He was planning to engage with a group of people in preparing for the upcoming year in setting their goals and how they were going to achieve what they wanted for themselves. His perspective was he had to have all the answers when he walked in the room and he was beating himself up. He was investing time doing things that we learned together. He didn’t need to invest that time. He was thinking he had to do all this work to be prepared.
Through questions and conversation with him, what he unearthed was, “Wait a minute, they’ve already got the answers. I’ve got to draw the answers out of the people I’m leading.” Again, a mindset shift from “I have to know it all. I have to do it all,” because none of us can do that. But he thought he had to prepare. He realized he could let go of that. He sat down with each person, asked them to engage in conversation about what they wanted for themselves in this forthcoming year. They talked and two things happened. He deepened his rapport with them because he spent time listening. He wasn’t talking at them with all this really interesting stuff. He listened. That shifted the relationship and the rapport. They were used to being told what to do, and here was a leader, new leader, who was actually listening and then they started to collaborate together.
So key point, it deepened rapport with the individual, and what he has found so far is, because of that deeper trust, the commitment to meet the goals that they have set for themselves is deeper because they feel they matter, but also they feel a commitment to working with him for everybody’s success.
Ryan Goulart:
Yeah, the change in approach takes awareness to be able to do that. So it sounds like working with you has been a very beneficial opportunity for him to be able to make that shift.
Bob Nedbal:
The other thing that happened is there was a sense of ease and relaxing. He’s like, “Oh, I don’t have to have all the freaking answers. How cool is that?” That was a key benefit, and that’s shifted how he shows up in almost every situation. So really fascinating.
Ryan Goulart:
Curious about how to intentionally develop the skills Bob and I talked about? Join our Breakthrough Leadership program that kicks off this January. Find out more at think2perform.com.
You made me think of anchoring back on that transition, so he’s getting promoted. He’s going into a new situation. I’ve witnessed where one is about to step into leadership, and there are two things that’s occurred. One is that they’ve observed some behavior from their predecessor, good and bad, and then they are also bringing some expertise with them, leading some more people, similar role to the one I had, and now I feel I know more because I’ve been promoted. So unintentionally, I don’t mean to do this, but because I feel that way, I sometimes micromanage. What would you recommend? What have you observed in your facilitation or coaching that you would help that person with?
Bob Nedbal:
I don’t think there’s a person, a leader that I have worked with, Ryan, that hasn’t been in that very situation that you really well articulated. So a couple of things. Observing my predecessor or maybe leadership management experiences I’ve had in my past that maybe weren’t so good, and then also the good stuff. So observing that, it’s possible that what I have experienced is limited in terms of the breadth of leadership flexibility that’s possible. My knowledge base, there’s a limited amount of information I have accessible to me about how to lead. So that’s one assumption.
And then the other points you made, I’ve been newly promoted, and so I think I know more. That was what happened to me in my light-bulb moment that I was a manager and not a leader of people many years ago, and it started my leadership journey. I recognized that I thought I had to get more out of other people for my own benefit. That was my limited and very selfish point of view. It didn’t feel good when I finally recognized it. So that’s very real this idea, “Hey, I know more and I may have some limited experience.”
What the Breakthrough Leadership program will help people discover, a breadth, there are many leadership models, but the models that we use and what we encourage of people is this recognition that I need to lead Ryan in a unique way. I’m going to need to lead Lisa in a unique way. Why is that? Because I put my attention on how Ryan is, what’s important to Ryan, that’s going to be different from Lisa and everybody else. One of the behaviors that can happen is that I lead people in one way. It doesn’t matter who the person is. This is a common leadership mistake. To your point, I micromanage because I know stuff.
Well, through the Breakthrough Leadership program, we begin to recognize that there are times, very important times, where directing an individual will be valuable. Particularly when that person’s new in a role. They’ve got some relevant experience but they’ve never done this role before. They don’t know how to be successful. In that circumstance, being directive with me as the new employee, that’s going to feel pretty darn good to me. Because I don’t know. Don’t throw me in the deep end because that’s the other end of it. There’s underleading. So there are moments when directing is going to be really useful and then, as you work with me, we begin to recognize, “Oh, I’m picking up my skills. My confidence is growing, my competency is growing,” and you begin to coach. And so we’re shifting. We’re still being directive and making decisions for the person because, again, they’re learning. We’re developing them. So we’re coaching them on their journey.
And, by the way, you have this conversation with the human being you’re leading. “I’m going to be directive with you. I want you to be successful.” And then, as I see you building your confidence and your abilities, we’re going to shift. It’s going to change. So we move into another style of coaching and working. Ultimately, we shift the decision-making over to the person we’re leading because they’re becoming successful. Ultimately, Ryan, what happens is we begin to recognize Bob’s got this, he’s doing great, and we can delegate. And the way we know that, there’s a couple of things in the Breakthrough Leadership program, when the peer group is discussing it, they begin to recognize some conditions that are showing up or things evolve a certain way. What they notice is the person’s becoming successful and they don’t have to be paying so much attention to what’s going on there.
The punch line is two ways to know. First, Bob can actually teach Ryan how to do this job that he’s been doing successfully. And whenever we ask Bob, “Hey, we’re going to need that done on Tuesday of next week,” we both know Tuesday next week it’s done. We trust that. So the key points I’m making here is leadership flexibility. Shifting and changing my leadership style to meet the needs of the person I’m leading is a tool that we do not get taught in college. We don’t get taught growing up as this happens. Some of us are fortunate. So recognize this. I’ve got a brief story here of it’s an executive team member of a really huge nonprofit organization, and they had shared this story with me that they either recognized they were overconfident in those they were leading, and so they underled them. They thought, “Oh, they got it.”
That was that example of, “Hey, you’ve been successful over here. I know you got this.” So they realized that they were underleading people at times and, on the flip side, they would overlead or micromanage. We’ve all experienced that. We talked about this model, and the aha moment for her was she didn’t know it coming into the conversation, but as we talked about what she was experiencing with some of her team members, this light bulb went on for her. She’s like, “I’ve only ever micromanaged or delegated and I delegated too soon in some situations.” This was a moment for her where she realized, “You know what? I can get even better.” So with that awareness now, she is thinking more consistently, “What is it that this person needs? What are the questions I need to ask this person if I don’t understand what they need? How do we develop the relationship and the dialogue so that I can lead them in the way that is going to best serve their growth and our needs as a team?”
Ryan Goulart:
That’s super powerful and I think everything you’ve just described from directive to delegating is part of the journey. What type of results have you seen or observed in business owners, firm owners or CEOs, of this type of transformation that we’re talking about through leadership development?
Bob Nedbal:
From the new leader up, I think it’s really important that new leaders, those that are having successes, they begin to recognize their potential for positive impact at the team level, at the organization level, whether it be a for-profit business, nonprofit organization, they see a growing potential for the change they can make in the world. That’s deeply impactful. Shifting to the business owner or an executive, what are some of the benefits they see? One of the fundamental things that every business owner or executive that is listening to this, we all know this. Our success as we grow in our responsibilities within an organization or our success as we build a business and it goes from three people to five to 15 to 50, and then beyond, a hundred, our continued growth and success, both for the business’s success and my success as an individual, I have to do more with and through others.
In order for this organization to continue to grow, I have to place my attention and invest time, money and other resources effectively. As I think about how I’m going to reinvest my time, I recognize I have to do that. So what do I do next? I have to think about who in the organization I can develop into the next leader, next leaders. I may be developing a leadership team depending on where I am in the organization. In any case, in order for me to make the reinvestment of my time where I need to, I’ve got to develop my best people. What I have heard time and again from leaders that have invested in this is that, while they may not think it going in, as they make the investment and the people respond, they see that I saw something in them and that I want to help them grow and develop.
Again, if I think about this from the perspective of a values-based leader, one of the things that we say all the time here to perform is values-based leaders live in alignment more often. They live in alignment more often, and they teach others to do the same. These are words from my clients. They recognize that they’ve been able to make the shift to invest the time strategically, thinking longer-term, developing leaders who are developing other leaders because our people are our most valuable resource.
So they’ve seen that, as they’ve invested in others, it does free up their time, and when they see the response and they see the result that their leaders are now leaders beginning the journey to develop other leaders, they recognize, tying it back to the thing I said at the beginning, “I have to do more with them through others.” They’re recognizing that they’re developing capacity in the business and, as the business grows, they’ve got the people in the leadership capacity to support that growth productively, intentionally, thoughtfully.
So those are a couple of the things. One, I actually can reinvest my time, but there’s steps I have to do to make that possible, so I’ve got to make that commitment. And then, second, when I’m leading from a place of values orientation and I’m teaching and developing others to live in alignment more often, we not only are aligned with our own values and purpose in life, but we’re aligned with the organization, whether it be for-profit or non-profit organization. If we create that alignment of where we need to go as a business, with where people want to go in their lives and I invest in those people, remarkable things are possible.
Ryan Goulart:
Thank you very much, Bob, for coming on.
Bob Nedbal:
It’s always a pleasure. Great to be here with you and for all of our listeners, I hope this was a useful session for you and I look forward to seeing you at Breakthrough Leadership.
Ryan Goulart:
As we wrap this episode, we’re committed to helping you make the ideal real. If you found this program helpful, share it and help someone else make their ideal real, too. Until next time for think2perform, I’m Ryan Goulart. Take care.
