In this return episode after, Ryan Goulart welcomes back Think2Perform Founder and CEO Doug Lennick to dive deep into a timely and resonant conversation about the current State of Values around the world and how our behavior is shaped by them. Drawing on data from Think2Perform’s global Values Exercise and the State of Values Report, Doug unpacks why we do what we do, how we form habits, and what it takes to make lasting change in today’s emotionally charged environment.
Doug also talks the importance of self-awareness and reflection in making rational choices, particularly in the context of financial decisions. The discussion highlights how understanding our emotions and values can lead to better behaviors and relationships, ultimately guiding us through life’s challenges.
Values in Action: The Emotional Blueprint for Better Decisions
In today’s rapidly changing world, decision-making has never felt more complex. But according to Doug Lennick, CEO of Think2Perform, it doesn’t have to be. In this episode of Making the Ideal Real, Doug joins host Ryan Goulart to explore how emotions and values often viewed as “soft skills” can be powerful tools in shaping behavior, strengthening relationships, and guiding more rational, intentional choices.
Behavior: The Root of Every Result
Doug kicks off the conversation by addressing a foundational question: Why do we do what we do? The answer, he explains, lies in understanding human behavior as a combination of thoughts, emotions, and physical actions. “We are animals wired for survival,” Doug says. “Our emotions are intelligence. They signal danger, opportunity, and everything in between.”
This emotional wiring helps us survive but can cloud our ability to think clearly, especially in moments of uncertainty. That’s why building awareness is crucial. “Most of what we do, we do because we did,” Doug shares—highlighting how much of our behavior is habit-driven and reactive rather than conscious or value-aligned.
Values: Your Internal GPS
To break free from these reactive cycles, Doug encourages reflection on personal values. Think2Perform’s Values Exercise—which has now gone viral globally—helps individuals identify what matters most to them. This reflection serves as a decision-making filter, clarifying goals and aligning behavior.
“People always make values-based decisions. The problem is, they usually make them based on what they value in the moment,” Doug explains. “But when you reflect on your deeper values before acting, your decisions become more rational and aligned with who you want to be.”
This alignment—between behavior, goals, and values—is where transformation happens. It allows individuals to respond with intention instead of reacting from emotion.
Self-Awareness: The Gateway to Change
Doug introduces the “Freeze Game,” a practical exercise for real-time self-awareness. By pausing to check in—What am I thinking? How am I feeling? What am I doing?—people create space between stimulus and response. This space is where better decisions live.
He outlines Think2Perform’s “Relationship Logic Chain”:
- Self-awareness leads to
- Better decisions, which lead to
- More effective self-management, which improves
- Relationships with people and money.
This sequence isn’t just a model; it’s a practical tool to navigate both everyday situations and high-stakes challenges. “What we do is who we are. Even when we’re ‘not ourselves,’ we are still us,” Doug emphasizes.
Financial Anxiety: Reflect Before You React
A particularly timely part of the conversation focuses on financial stress. With markets fluctuating and uncertainty high, many individuals feel the pull of emotional decision-making—especially around money. Doug reassures listeners: “Your net worth may be down, but that doesn’t mean your financial security is gone.”
He calls this environment “predictably unpredictable” and encourages preparation through Think2Perform’s Smart Money Philosophy: keeping enough liquid assets on hand to avoid reactive selling during downturns. “Market volatility happens. But if you’re prepared, you don’t have to sell. You can stay the course with rationality, not fear.”
The Bigger Picture: Values as a Global Connector
The episode wraps with a reminder that values aren’t just personal—they’re universal. With millions around the world engaging in the Values Exercise, Doug notes a growing desire for clarity, purpose, and human connection. “People care about what people care about,” he says. “And when we make decisions from that place of shared values, we get closer to our ideal selves—and a better world.”
Transcript
Ryan Goulart (00:02.57)
I have with me today Doug Lenick, CEO of Think, or Form. Doug, welcome back to making the ideal real. It’s been a minute since you’ve been on your company’s podcast. Welcome back.
Douglas Lennick (00:10.839)
Thank you.
Douglas Lennick (00:18.487)
Well, I’m glad to be back. Thanks for having me back. What a wonderful topic we have. I think I like it. So it’s good to be back and a lot going on in the world. Always has been, but there are times when we’re more acutely aware. This is one of those acutely aware times.
Ryan Goulart (00:28.27)
Awesome.
Ryan Goulart (00:44.108)
Yeah, I mean, so it’s been six months since we’ve launched a podcast. We’ve been on a bit of a hiatus and, know, Doug and I and our colleagues here were talking and we’re like, what would be a great launching topic given the context of what we’re experiencing in the world? You know, what, what, where, where can we ground ourselves and our audience on to help navigate this?
Douglas Lennick (01:06.507)
Well, and what a great thing to think about. What are the state of values around the world? You and you guys, last couple of years have done such a phenomenal job of producing the state of values report, the study, and what we now know about the people of the world, and we see the issues
that are existing around the globe and within every community. It’s interesting and useful to wonder what are the state of values? What do people care about really? No kidding.
Ryan Goulart (01:53.644)
Yeah. And I think it’s a good, I mean, that’s a great jumping off point for our discussion because you know, one of the things that we’ve talked about both since inception of, Think To Perform 23 years ago, but also like, we know the state of the world is feeling a little bit of, chaos. mean, whether you’re looking at the market, you’re looking at, economies, you’re looking at your own self and
So that reactive nature, behavioral element, Doug, just for our audience, just kind of walk our audience through your perception of behavior. Why do we do what we do? And we’ll then use that as a baseline to kind of have a further conversation about what are some solutions to it.
Douglas Lennick (02:36.307)
What? Yeah.
Douglas Lennick (02:41.46)
Yeah, that’s a great combo question and starting with why do we do what we do and connect that to what’s going on right now. I mean, so you’ve got all kinds of activities going on, various wars, trade wars, tariff wars, whatever, and you’ve got real wars, physical, we’re really killing people here and there.
You know, all of that stuff’s going on. So when we get into that and we think real life, why do people do what they do? We need to remember that human beings are animals. I mean, we are an animal. And we’re the top of the food chain animal, but we are an animal.
And as such, we are wired to survive. All the other animals want to survive also. Now, what’s interesting about human beings is one of our sources of information for survival are our emotions. So our emotions are intelligence, if you will. That’s why we have this phrase we call emotional intelligence.
our emotions are signaling to us what’s going on either inside of myself or outside. So we got all this stuff going on. So we’ve got people yelling at each other. got people shooting at each other. We’ve got people raising prices. We’ve got all this going on. And so when our reality, our reality is stimulated from the outside, it stimulates us emotionally.
So I should define for a moment reality. So reality, as we think about it in the world of behavioral science, is really a combination of cognitive thought, emotion, and physical experience. That’s our reality. And in there, there’s a spirituality that kind of surrounds that and weaves within it that rests in that whole reality.
Douglas Lennick (05:06.048)
But when that reality of thought and emotion and physicality is stimulated by all of this stuff that’s happening, it stimulates each of us emotionally first. And then if it scares us, which it’s doing for many people, if it excites us, which it’s doing for a bunch of people, it’s actually going to cloud our ability to think clearly.
So which is bizarre. But part of why we do what we do is strictly out of our survival instinct. But as humans, we’ve been granted a cerebral capability that allows for us to arise above an emotional response. But you think of that word emotion, it’s designed to E-motion. What we introduce at Think to Perform is E-think motion.
You know, we want to think before we moat. And right now, a lot of people aren’t. And one of the things they should be thinking about before they moat is what people of the world really care about. And what do people really value? And I don’t value your stuff enough to take it from you. I’ll say that.
Ryan Goulart (06:29.112)
Yeah, and I think it just, I mean, one of your famous quotes is that much of what you do, you do because you did. So,
Douglas Lennick (06:41.504)
Exactly. In fact, most of what we do, we do because we did. And you could think about, and our listeners can think about this, a lot of what each of us did this morning resembled what we did yesterday morning. And that routine helps us use the routine to think or to do or to not. Some people decide what to think because they’re just into their routine.
and they decide what to think about, some people are just into their routine, don’t know what they’re thinking about. We, as our company name suggests, encourages people to actually decide what to think, think to perform. Should do that, decide what to think about.
Ryan Goulart (07:29.014)
And then you, so we have an understanding of human behavior. We understand that human behavior is a function of our thoughts, our emotions and our actions. And with that baseline, much of what you do, you do because you did. We’re habits. We form habits and we do them. Now talk to, we’ll take the conversation away from the individual.
and roll it all the way up into the State of the Values report, which we launched in October of 2024. It’s the perfect time to have this conversation, Doug, because that was six months ago. And a lot of the tenants from the report actually still are true, which is really good that we did this.
Douglas Lennick (08:13.14)
Well, well, you know, and Adam Siegel who runs that, digital programs and actually oversees this values exercise, we’re keeping score every day and the data is coming in all over the world. You know, I’m proud to say of you guys, proud of you, proud of us that
This has been so well received by the people around the world that if someone right now were to Google values exercise, the result of that, wherever in the world they Google values exercise, think to perform pops up. So listeners, try that. Now, interestingly enough, if you change that and go to values card exercise,
Amazon pops up number one, it’s a banner ad, and there’s a bunch of stuff you can buy on Amazon related to values. But right below Amazon’s banner ad is Think to Perform Again. And what that tells me is people care about what people care about. People care, and once they do the exercise, the reason it’s gone viral, I believe,
is they encourage others to do the same thing and that’s how it’s picking up. So it’s kind of cool. So good for you guys.
Ryan Goulart (09:47.278)
Well, and I think there’s a component of this too, that why would someone, why would an individual first want to learn their own values? We’ll start there. Why would someone want to do that?
Douglas Lennick (10:04.158)
Well, think values, if one thinks about decision making, the interesting reality, I believe, is we are always making values-based decision. It’s usually what we value in the moment. I value that right now. I’m gonna do that right now. The values exercise is designed to help us go a little deeper.
that there are some things if we reflect on them that we care about more than others. So I might, I have before me a water and a diet Coke, and right now I value a water a little bit more than the diet Coke. Now, if I reflected on that, I might value that water because I value health more so than not healthy.
And I drink both, but the truth is health is one of my values. So if one goes deeper and takes that opportunity to whittle down from this big set of things I care about to what I care about most, that helps me make decisions. So the real purpose behind values is it’s designed to help us with our behaviors. So.
If I value something, how does that show up in my goals? How does that show up in my behaviors? And what we have found, Ryan, is that people who reflect on making a decision, who reflect on their values before making that decision, will make a more rational decision. Doesn’t mean they’ll always be right. It just means they’ll be more rational.
And so values reflection engages more of one’s total self. So I start to reflect on what really matters to me. And so I say to myself, before I decide, I want to reflect on what really matters to me. And that’s where it’s at. And so values reflection is really designed to help us with our behaviors. Ultimately,
Douglas Lennick (12:28.68)
What we do is who we are. I am what I’m doing right now. This is really me. Even when I say I haven’t been myself, it’s still me. So for all of you that are currently not yourself, you are you. I’m sorry.
Ryan Goulart (12:46.018)
Well, so with that context too, so we now have behavior. We understand what’s that? It values. Now we have both. So there in lies, a conversation of the possible friction, the lack of or perceived control over our given situation. So, you know, walk us through a little bit of your own thinking on
Douglas Lennick (12:49.876)
Yeah, and we have values. And values. have behavior, we have values. Right.
Ryan Goulart (13:13.928)
I’m just like if if my current state is isn’t or the behavior that I’m experiencing right now Isn’t who I want to be ideally. How do I change and how do I ensure that that change? lasts
Douglas Lennick (13:28.438)
Well, gets back to what we talked about. Most of what we do, we do because we did. So when we convert what we’re talking about, the desired behavior to a habit, then it’ll last. Until it gets converted to a habit, it won’t last. And even once it’s a habit, it has the potential of getting interrupted for various reasons, like a COVID. You know, there are a lot of people had good health related behaviors before COVID.
that were abandoned during the first year or two of COVID. And so some of those healthy habits were replaced by less healthy habits in many cases, mine included. And so what we do is really use that opportunity to at least guide, at least for me, it starts with self-awareness. And most people haven’t taken the time
to do this deep dive on their values. They just haven’t taken the time. They might have gone to church or synagogue or whatever their faith might be. When they were young or now as adults, they may still participate in something and they sort of remember that, but they may not have really taken the time themselves to really examine what do I really care about? And the values exercise is designed to help them do that. And the process of
of doing that helps them clear, clearly identify what they care about more than other things. So the sort of things really matters. Like in my case, I value family happiness, wisdom, integrity, service, and health. My son, Alan, he has, and I’ve thought about this and I keep thinking about it.
He actually uses relationships. He values relationships and it encompasses family for him. And I too value relationships. the reality is though, as I’ve gotten older, I realize I do, but when I have to make a decision between a family relationship, you know, an activity, do I do the family activity or I do this other relationship activity?
Douglas Lennick (15:56.075)
Both will nurture relationships. I’m picking family. So families, that’s the way it is. And so it helps me decide. It helps me decide. I’ve got a meeting to go to and the relationships in that meeting are important to me. Or I’ve got my granddaughter’s birthday party. I’m going to the birthday party. I’ll do what I can on the other stuff. I mean, we have to make choices.
values-based reflection allows for us to make better choices. And then with that self-awareness, I can decide. So we have this logic chain that we use and it starts with self-awareness. Do you want me to go through the whole thing? Yeah, well, it basically says from self-awareness, and we usually go top down, but I’m gonna go bottoms up. From self-awareness, if I’m aware,
Ryan Goulart (16:41.144)
That’d be great.
Douglas Lennick (16:53.106)
of who I am really and who I am ideally and what my goals are. So think of self-awareness broadly. But start with this one part which is really critical and should be converted to habit. That is self-awareness of my reality. So multiple times every day we suggest
I suggest, and I know you do too Ryan, that people practice the freeze game. The freeze game is just a stop and pay attention moment. What am I thinking right now? How am I feeling emotionally right now? Physically, what am I doing intentionally or unintentionally right now? What’s happening? And could I be thinking or doing something better? That’s kind of the bonus question.
The freeze game is just the first part. Practice that. Practice makes permanent. Out of that self-awareness of who I am really and self-awareness of who I am ideally, do the values exercise. Identify your top five values. Whatever that number is, if you were listening to me, I have six. But the exercise will take you down to five.
You can add a number if you want. The opportunity is to convert those two behaviors. So I need to be aware of them. And then I need to be aware of my goals. So if I’m aware of my values, self-awareness, I’m aware of what I want to accomplish, what I want for myself. We have an acronym, Witty Wiffy. And if I’m aware of my reality, out of that self-awareness, I can make a decision. So self-awareness first.
Decision next. Should I change what I’m thinking? Should I change what I’m doing? Should I continue what I’m thinking? Should I continue what I’m doing? I’m gonna make a decision. What do I do next? If I make the right decision, I am deciding to manage myself more effectively. And the answer to the question, how will I know I’m managing myself effectively?
Douglas Lennick (19:18.646)
goes back to what I’m self-aware of. I am managing myself more effectively when I’m aligning what I’m doing in the reality frame to who I am ideally in the values frame, consistent and helpful to achieve my goals in the middle frame. That’s alignment. And when I’m aligned
my relationships with people and my relationships with money all improve. That’s what we call the relationship logic chain. And one of the things that we find people all over the world value is interpersonal effectiveness. People want to be able to relate to other people. This is a tool that helps us do that.
Effective relationships with other people and with money, for those who are worrying about money these days, effective relationships with people and money is a function of effective management of self. That’s a function of effective real-time decision-making and that is a function of self-awareness. That’s the whole enchilada.
Ryan Goulart (20:43.502)
So.
Douglas Lennick (20:46.368)
And that requires a little water, so it’s your turn. And by the way, when I drink water, that’s the time I do values reflection. So while I’m doing this, I’m putting verbs in front of my values and I’ll explain later if you want.
Ryan Goulart (20:48.866)
Well, one of the things that’s…
Ryan Goulart (21:00.59)
You know, one of the things like, maybe that’s the next point because, you know, when change feels more present than it always is, how, mean, for our listeners that are experiencing some different emotion right now, I mean, whether they be individuals that are five years away from retirement or even five years into retirement,
They’re experiencing some, some emotion to the degree that they feel that their money is going to be there or not. And, you know, we work a lot in financial services, but most people have some understanding of checking their bank account or checking their investment account and realizing that
Douglas Lennick (21:38.986)
See ya.
Douglas Lennick (21:50.184)
Yeah.
Ryan Goulart (21:55.244)
they may not have as much money as they would like to and they don’t know how they got there and they look at the market tanking and they’re like, no. So yeah.
Douglas Lennick (22:03.818)
Well, one thing I would say to that, Ryan, is an alive
to grasp really, but one’s net worth might be down and yet their financial security might be quite fine. So I can be both having my net worth go down, which I’ve experienced like everybody else, maybe not everybody else, but I’m guessing a few people have had their net worth on paper go down. One of the things my dad,
deceased now, this would be his 100th year, he would be 100 this year. But he used to say to his friends up at what he called the liquor store, which is actually where he would go and meet up with his buddies and have a cocktail, wasn’t really a liquor store, it was a bar, but he would be up there and when they would…
get upset with the market volatility, which we’ve had forever and ever, market volatility happens. It’s predictably unpredictable, so it’s going to happen. And he would say, you don’t have to sell your shares.
your net worth is down, the share value is down, the numbers of shares are down. If your house value is down and you don’t sell it, it’s okay.
Douglas Lennick (23:37.651)
if your share values are down and you don’t sell them, it’s okay unless you own a company that’s going out of business, which is possible. But one of the things I will just say about that is if people have prepared themselves in that thing to perform, we profess a smart money philosophy, which I really believe, and I sincerely believe that it’s a rational way.
It’s a rational way to deal with the emotions and it’s really critical. But it’s a smart money philosophy that says what my dad said. If you have some other money, if it’s all not in the market and you need some cash, then go get cash as opposed to sell. So we can get through these times.
if we’ve been practicing the smart money philosophy, which allows us to be prepared for the predictably unpredictable. It’s predictable that all of us will die. It’s unpredictable as to when and how.
dying is a financial event, you can get prepared. While alive, it’s predictable that sometimes people will be sick and hurt, not 100 % of us, but it’s predictable that people will get in car accidents. It’s unpredictable as to who, when, how, but it’s predictably unpredictable. Most swans are white.
but there are black ones, it’s predictable. These events are predictable, we can be prepared. Sometimes they spike, but the spike doesn’t make it any different. It just makes it more quick. It’s like tearing the band-aid off instead of letting the market go down slowly, slowly, slowly, and it’s still down. And if I’m prepared,
Douglas Lennick (25:48.841)
I still don’t have to sell those shares if I don’t want to. That’s where I’m at. So the idea is to have a rational reason to calm one’s emotions because it’s an emotional time and our emotions might get the best of us unless we are aware and that’s why we practice the four R’s. We recognize
We reflect, we reframe, we respond, presto. We made a rational decision. And sometimes rational decisions don’t work, but they work better on average over time than irrational ones. That’s all.
Ryan Goulart (26:36.866)
Yeah. and especially in a time like this, mean, what we’ve articulated thus far is we are human. have behavior. When we have behavior, we make decisions. When we make decisions, those decisions sometimes are good or bad or irrational or irrational. And we can use values as a lens to help us think a little bit more about what we’re consciously deciding. And.
Douglas Lennick (26:54.166)
Exactly right.
Douglas Lennick (26:59.924)
Right?
Douglas Lennick (27:05.45)
Crap.
Ryan Goulart (27:07.022)
And then there’s the other side of this too, where we also know that if we have money and we’re looking to, and we’re feeling a certain way about experiencing a drop in the market that we’ve realized over the last few days, that it’s
not the end of the world. How do we reframe though? there’s a component of this that I think sometimes goes missed. It’s like, just stay the course, Doug. Well, I’m experiencing a really big, like this is meaningful for me.
Douglas Lennick (27:39.348)
Well.
Douglas Lennick (27:44.351)
Well, it absolutely is, but the reflection part is where it’s the dominoes. If I reflect, I will reframe. If I don’t reflect, I won’t reframe. What will happen is if I skip the reflection part, what I go to is emotion. If I do the reflection, what I’m doing in the reflection part is E think motion. And so before I mode, I reflect.
And what I reflect on includes the big picture, includes my values, and it includes my current reality. Now, the truth is, if the market never recovers, you know, when the market goes down, let’s say the market goes down 50%, if it never recovers, then that will always be lost.
So far in history that has not occurred. So, you know, that doesn’t mean the market will always go up. It doesn’t. And that’s the mistake people make. They make the mistake that whatever is happening today is going to happen tomorrow. If it’s going up today, it’ll go up tomorrow. If it’s going down today, it’s going to go down tomorrow. That is a, upon reflection, that’s faulty thinking.
That’s just not true. And sometimes we have to think and go, that’s not true. Of course it’s not true. And so we recognize that. The markets are swinging more every day now than they used to be worth in total. Use the Dow Jones as an example. Everybody uses the Dow Jones. I started my career, I started training in 1973. 1972.
was the first year that the Dow Jones closed the year above a thousand. So I started my training in 1973. I became a real financial advisor in 1974. And the next time the Dow closed the year above a thousand was 1982. I was nine years into my career before the Dow ever hit a thousand again. Or went above, that’s not true.
Douglas Lennick (30:10.61)
It did hit 1976, I should say then, but then 82. so we’re talking about the whole market. And so we have to then see it went up, but then it crashed. I remember the market dropping 30 % one day. then eventually it comes back. We have prolonged dips. We don’t know. That’s why we want to be ready. And so the idea…
is to reflect. And if we reflect on our values, reflect on the big picture, reflect on what we really care about, we might quite be fine. And then we reframe.
and then we respond. And the response could be to take action or to not. Upon reflection, I don’t have to do anything. Or I do. Whichever it is. But whatever it is, you’ll make a more rational decision if you take the think time. That’s the reflection time. Maybe we should call ourselves the reflection company. I don’t think so. I like think to perform.
Ryan Goulart (31:23.182)
Well, Doug, thank you so much for coming on to making the ideal real, providing us with some of your wisdom, and using one of your values, I guess. So, thank you again.
Douglas Lennick (31:33.024)
Yeah.
Thank you. My pleasure.
